Who’s Paying?
When my daughters began playing Little League softball I was determined to learn all I could about the game. The first thing that became apparent was the disparity between the treatment of boys and girls. The equipment designated for the girls was old and busted, the fields were poorly maintained and the overall attitude about females as athletes was dismissive. I decided to challenge those archaic beliefs and eventually took over the softball portion of the league. My focus was simple–or so I thought–to make sure there was equality in every area. When fancy new baseball fields were built and girls were not allowed to use them, I’d had enough. I enlisted the help of a lawyer whose daughter played softball and together we notified the elected officials from the City of Henderson of our intent to file an injunction freezing all ball fields in the city until a fair and equitable distribution of those fields occurred. It caused quite a stir. Seems nothing can piss people off more than to take away their ability to scream at an umpire. I wasn’t popular and I’m sure you can imagine the things that were said about me, but the girls got their fields.
In spite of my belief in the equality of men and women there is an area where I am highly conflicted. On a date, who is picking up the check? I’d like to say it is something that is inherently male—the job of paying–but I’d be insulting the intelligence of both men and women with that statement.
I could spout off some rhetorical blah, blah, blah such as, “Men don’t have to carry babies for 9 months, the least they can do is pay.” Or, “Women suffer with our monthly friend—just part of being a female–paying for a date is part of being male.” But I can’t allow those tired old clichés to cross my lips.
I’d have to call “bullshit” on myself.
If I utter that nonsense then the next thing you know I’ll be singing country western songs or some other god-awful thing like collecting those dolls Marie Osmond sells on QVC. Although once, after an especially painful break up, I belted out a haunting rendition of “You Ain’t Woman Enough to Take My Man,” and although it was 1982, I can still be moved to tears when I recall the emotion behind those words. Rick, you do remember when I sang that to you over the phone, right? If not, that’s OK. I’ll add it to the next mix tape I send–Memories of Us, Volume 49. Did you move?
Back to the money issue.
When the bill arrives on any of my recent dates it doesn’t register that I should pay. I never reach for it. All of a sudden I have alligator arms. I wonder if it’s my age? When I first began dating the rules were clear. The guys were asking and they were paying. Period. Am I stuck in that place in the past where gender roles were defined?
The truth is I’ve never dated a man in my life that would accept a woman paying for anything. Yes, lots of those men had more money than me, but even those who were equally strapped pulled out the cash. If I began to dig in my handbag for tip money for the coat check person or valet, many would become indignant. “Don’t be ridiculous,” was something I heard often. I took it for granted and never analyzed the phenomenon until now.
Am I as guilty of discrimination as those blowhard Little League board members?
Why am I so presumptuous? Shouldn’t I at least offer to pay for my portion of the bill? It isn’t about the money. I’m generous and love to pick up the entire check when out with friends. No one has ever called me cheap or even frugal. Or is it that I’m naturally drawn to the Mr. Big Time sort of man—the guy who takes it as a slight to his masculinity if a woman pays? I have to say guys like that are certainly familiar in my dating history.
This is not something limited to MY love life. When my adult daughter tells me about a date the first thing I ask is, “Do you like him?” And then follow immediately with, “Did he pay?” I say this to the young woman who took that Little League experience and worked tirelessly to become a Division I college pitcher setting multiple school records during her years playing ball. She was fearless—a contender and certainly a better athlete than most men she’s dating today. There wasn’t a moment in her childhood that was marred by the belief that she was anything but an equal in the gender game.
BUT, I’m certainly giving her a mixed message now.
I’m a strong and opinionated. That’s been a challenge for lots of men in my life, yet there’s a large part of me (if I’m being honest) that wants to feel like a woman in the most pure and probably primal way. I want a man who makes me feel safe, protected and one who takes charge in the bedroom. Is it that uber-masculine guy—a man’s man—who creates those feelings? It seems to be for me.
I’m not sure what I’ll do in the future but even if I don’t reach for the bill, I’ll be acutely aware what is beginning to feel like a lack of generosity on my part.
I need both men and women to weigh in on this one. Fill the Comments section with your thoughts or post on my Facebook wall. Please share your experiences or beliefs. Help me figure this out. It’s been a slow week for dates—I’m a little gun shy after being busted because of this blog–so there’s been lots of time at home to ponder this dating process.
If you follow me on Twitter, I’ll follow back. @Melani_Robinson
“I don’t understand the whole dating thing. I know right off the bat if I’m interested in someone, and I don’t want them to waste their money on me and take me out to eat if I know I’m not interested in that person.” Britney Spears
I’m old school. The man pays. I have no problem with that. It’s like that old L’Oreal ad…”because I’m worth it”.
Kristine, you are worth it!
Not about who pays…its about connection.
Being a “man’s man” and a southern gentleman, I always pick up the tab. Regardless of the quality of the date or whatever, I graciously foot the bill.
However, I did have a date several months ago with an attorney who insisted she pay her half. However, after a rather spirited debate, she relented.
Most women do not seem to mind, even some very ardent feminist types.
I think it is a woman’s responsiblity to pay for her meal, movie, etc if she has no intentions of furthering the relationship. I have no problem paying but at least if there is no connection then I shouldn’t have to pay for their food, drinks, movie etc. We do live in a world where it is ok to do that and should be encouraged among young women.
If you do not have a problem paying, then why does it matter? Just asking.
Anon, I agree that a woman shouldn’t take advantage of a guy just for a free meal. But on a first date you don’t know if you’re going to have a connection and sometimes it takes a few more. What then?
I agree with Kristine, the man should always pay not everything has to changed to todays standards somethings can still be the way they were.
Debby, it is nice when some things stay the way they’ve always been. Dating at any age is rough, trying to learn the rules at 50–crazy.
In the beginning of a relationship or at least in the first few stages of the dating process, I absolutely believe a man should pay. I’m twenty four and I believe myself to be a strong independent woman. Nevertheless with 100% certainty I believe a man should pay in the beginning. I look at it more as an act of chivalry. If you’re broke, take me on a walk in the park. I must say though at a certain point in a relationship I will start to fight to pay the bill. Because after being together for a while or getting to a point of comfortableness, to me at least, things become more what’s yours is mine. However no matter how much I fight to pay the bill, my boyfriend still never lets me pay and that still makes me smile.
Min, thanks for your comment. You are a very wise 24 indeed!
This has become a dilema, but my thoughts are; certainly on the first dates (especially if he has initiated them), the man should pick up the tab. If a couple has started dating on a regular basis it seems fair if both parties are equitable, to occasionally pick up the tab alternately. Wow, that sounds so business like- forget it- the dude should pay…
Ha!
I grew up assuming men would pay but then I moved to the Netherlands. I’ve been dating on and off for low onto several years now and it astounds me every time the bill comes that I too have to pull out my wallet. “Going Dutch” is really just that: splitting the bill. But it seems rather unfair and I’ve never gone on a second date with a guy who made me pay my half…
Hi Sara, I dated a great guy from the Netherlands and he always paid for everything. He did tell me that it’s not the norm in his country. I never liked the expression, “going Dutch” much anyway!
Hi Melani, Well, he obviously had been living in the states long enough to know that you don’t impress American women with “going Dutch”.
Hi Sara. He actually lives in the Netherlands. He did tell me that most guys where he comes from expect a woman to pay her share. I guess he’s the exception–you’ve confirmed it.
I always pay my way. If the guy is insistant, I don’t want to insult him and will graciously accept. I never thought it was fair to assume the man should pay for everything, although with this online stuff, I do think that if someone initiates a meetup, it would be nice if they picked up the tab.
BTW…this online dating thing blows!! I am so close to shutting it down!!
Fellowdater, you’re right–online dating can certainly “blow” a lot of the time. I’m still hopeful though.
yeah, me too. I remain hopeful, although I have to admit online dating is hard on the ‘ego’. I know I’m fantastic but those ‘thanks but no thanks’ emails are pretty harsh. “You’re not my type”. I’ve had a few of those. Ugh. (Presently disabled my account because I’m moving back to the states in July after 23 years in Europe. It should be an interesting journey. I can compare Dutch and American dating sites.. and the men too.)
I’m a firm believer that the man pays for the date. It’s part of being a man. You take care of your woman, regardless if it’s your first date or you are celebrating your 89th anniversary.
Scott, you’re the first man who’s responded so strongly about paying. I lift my cyber glass to you.
At beginning the guy should pay, it’s the gentleman thing to do, but as the relationship progresses she should help too just to be fair.
As far as the man taking charge in the bedroom, that’s the only way for things to work out. I always take charge and the women love it. But then again I really take charge.
Also the only place the woman should have hair on her body is the head, age doesn’t matter.
Well, Beto, glad to hear you REALLY take charge!
As the mother of a fierce softball pitcher, a believer in equality and newly single, I can see your dilemma. I think it is always nice to offer, and if rebuffed, graciously say thank you. In the alternative, there is nothing wrong with footing the bill and your date’s articulated appreciation (or lack thereof) may tell you something about his character that you would otherwise not have discovered so soon. If he pays, great, after all, shape wear is expensive!
Hi Amy. So your daughter is a fierce softball pitcher? My favorite sort of girl! I paid last night on a date and I felt, well, turned off. Trying to figure this one out. I offered, he accepted, I’m annoyed. Hmmmm.
Just found out about your blog today, sorry to come late to the discussion. Anyway, I think that you are fine as long as it is personal preference rather than a value judgement about men. Asserting that you are looking for a man willing to foot the bill seems to be no more contentious than asserting that you are looking for a man with a certain chronological stature, but I agree that saying it is universally the man’s responsibility to pay for the date seems logically indefensible and reeks of gender essentialism.
I am enjoying the reading thus far, and I look forward to continuing backward through your archive!
Thanks, Kenny. You’re never late to the discussion when you have something worthy to say. Thanks for sharing!
I feel exactly as you do…I believe in equal rights for women and I would have done just as you did for my kids and the baseball field. But when it comes to dating…it’s just a different thing. Men pay for dates. Men buy engagement rings. Men ask for marriage. Men have the penis. Women carry babies. Some things just don’t change. Paying for dates is one of them. And can I just say…? That quote from Britney Spears…wow…that could be a summary of my whole high school/college dating life and why I usually had only one date per guy.
Enjoying your blog…hang in there!
Tracey, I can’t get beyond it. I”ve tried, but there’s just something that bothers me, to my core, about paying for dates. I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog. Thanks for commenting!
I know I’m weighing in late but I just found this blog – wish I had found it at the beginning – it is sooo helpful and keeps me laughing. I always offer to pay half but every man insists on paying except my last relationship of 5 months, and he was cheap. Which I don’t like. I was always picking up the tab in restaurants. He would be busily doing something else when the bill came. So beware of of the cheapskate; it is not an attractive person, male or female.
Thanks, Laura! Glad you found the blog–better late than never is always my view. Yep, cheap is a huge red flag for me. Can’t stand cheap. Thanks for your comment and I hope you enjoy the rest of the blog!
Just discovered thus blog, sent to me by a friend who wants me to write a book about online dating. Haven’t started, probably won’t but I did come up with a catchy title, “Fifty First Dates After Fifty”. Alas, I’m halfway there on the ‘Fifty first dates part’
I want to weigh in on the who pays issue. I am particularly strong, opinionated, independent, all the things they say they admire in a woman and then can’t seem to figure out what to do with. Not once have I paid on a FIRST date (Ann Landers said not to). I have however, paid for an occasional lunch if I see a person more than a couple of times. Also, there are ways to make it more fair by bringing over a bottle of wine, some appetizers, etc. if the relationship continues.
Just my 2 ¢.
Thanks, Esther, for your 2¢. Seems like you’ve got one that works for you–and Ann Landers! I agree about bringing wine, appetizers, etc. There are lots of things a woman can do to contribute. Thank you, again!
Another late one to the table, but this is always such a great topic – and it’s a hoot so far reading this blog. I’m newly back into the single life and have dabbled in ‘online dating’ when single over the past decade. 33 year old male, I’m a very big believer in equality (and feminism which in my mind equates to the same thing) – and was raised by a strong, independent and inspirational mother who contributed to instilling these values.
I do like to pay, not because I believe a man should pay but because I like to share and give when I have the means – whether it’s a date or pizza with mates. I like to pay because I choose to pay, any notion of tradition or that I *have* to pay I find insulting. I also like to pay because until the past few years I was always the poor one without expendable income (girlfriends often had a higher income than myself), and now I can give back.
But notions where I have to pay, or to take charge (be it in planning or the bedroom) really offends me. I’m very slow and horrible at ever making a first move because I was taught to respect women, so until the signs are painstakingly obvious, the idea of forcing myself onto someone is abhorrent (with a small dose of rejection-fear of course!). I like equality and democratic decisions, my ideal partner shares these responsibilities with me. I do like chivalry, but I’m the type of person who will open a door for a man or a woman – I’ve known women who are insulted by too much chivalry. This may very well be a generational thing, I spend time around non-mainstream people in alternative spheres which may have quite a different mindset.
In practice I’ve never had any trouble with the ‘who pays’ question, any dates I’ve had in my life both parties usually get their wallets out or we take turns. I’m likely to be turned off by someone who insists I pay, at least make an attempt to contribute – I’m still just as likely to get the tab, but a date, just like a relationship, is about two people, not just one.
That’s my viewpoint on the topic!
You sound like a generous man, Jarod. I, too, like to pay when out with girlfriends. I get pleasure in giving and I think there are many things a woman can do in lieu of whipping out her credit card on a date. I’m a big fan of all of those options but on this subject I’m pretty resolute. For me, it’s the personality type of the man who wouldn’t dream of a woman paying. I like that sort of guy and nobody would ever call me subservient. Keep reading, Jarod. This topic comes up again and it’s the most controversial one of the blog. So many men and women have told me I’m wrong, but I’m stickin’ to it. Thank you for taking the time to comment and share your feelings!
We do all have those little things of courtesy that can drive us nuts! I remember often getting upset when I would unlock and open the car door for my partner, but she would never reach across and unlock my side of the door in return. Then it took me over a year to get another partner to offer me a drink when she got up to get one.
So I don’t think I’d go so far to say that you are wrong, but obviously we are not a good match haha! And cheapness with a stranger/date is a turn off in general.
True, Jarod, there are little things that are annoying in the beginning of any relationship. Cheapness is not one of those things. It speaks to a person’s character–a stinginess that’s will show up in other areas beyond money. OK, we’re not a good match, but I’m glad you’re enjoying the blog.