High Tea on a Friday Night
Politics.
Something that we’re told to avoid in polite conversation, but I don’t see it that way. I’ve always loved respectful and informed political debate. I’ve been doing it for as long as I can remember.
I grew up walking precincts with my father during political campaigns. He’d take one side of the street and I the other.
“I’d appreciate your vote for John Foley.” I said, at ten years old. Or it was Howard Cannon, Mike O’Callaghan, even Jimmy Carter.
My dad made sure I knew all the candidate’s talking points—what our guy had to offer that his opponent didn’t. As a public school teacher and then principal he recognized the importance of a voting block and at that time the teachers were the largest block in the state. He founded TIP (Teachers in Politics) with the goal being to help elect those who were going to work the hardest for education. It seemed normal to know many of Nevada’s political leaders as they came to our home to shoot a game of pool and have a beer with my dad. My father always believed that governing was all about compromise. Both parties working together—giving up something to reach that middle ground that each could live with.
My father still studies all the issues today at almost eighty years old.
He can always see the stuff that’s going on behind the scenes–why certain things are happening. He has a sixth sense about it. I’ll never forget when he told me (while Bill Clinton was still in office) that Hillary was going to be our first female president. I was having dinner at his house and almost choked on my food.
“She’s far too polarizing, Dad. That’ll never happen.”
“Wait and see,” he said, “she’s the whole package and even smarter than Bill.”
He should’ve been a politician himself or worked as a strategist, for sure.
When my dad retired, Governor Bryan proclaimed it Leonard Robinson Day in Nevada. The Governor came to my father’s retirement party to present the proclamation. It was a bipartisan shindig since his cronies are from both sides of the aisle.
So are mine. Political differences have never impacted my friendships. I’ll take it one step further. I married two Republicans. On Election Day as I left to vote I’d laugh and say, “I’m going now to cancel you out.”
That’s why our current political climate is so disturbing. In my lifetime I’ve never seen such vitriol. I have my own opinion on why it’s happening and what our current president has to do with it, but that’s just speculation.
AND lately I do find that I’m a bit more discriminating—especially online. If a man has listed his political status as “Conservative Republican” I want clarification. Will he want to talk about our president’s religion? Where he was born? Would he tout the need for an investigation of members of Congress to see who’s pro-America or anti-America?
What does it mean?
Whew, now that you have the history, I’ll tell you about my date.
Karl sent me an email message letting me know he enjoyed my profile and thought I had beautiful skin. An interesting approach (the skin) and I was charmed. See how little it takes?
We exchanged a few messages and agreed to meet on Friday night for a glass of wine. Karl listed his political leanings as “Other” and I assumed he was an Independent.
We met on the corner of my street and Broadway. I was a little disappointed with his appearance. He was shorter than his profile stated and very thin.
Oh well, maybe my skin’s not as great as my photos either, I thought.
We walked to Cotta, a winebar on 85th and Columbus.
It was packed so getting a seat took some time. Karl went to the bar and got our wine and when we finally had a table, we ordered cheese and olives to snack on. Karl was friendly, a little awkward, a bit too loud, but he seemed nice enough. I’m not sure if it was an accident but his legs (he had on shorts) kept brushing up against mine (I wore a skirt).
I asked how long he’d been on the site. He said he was on it about a year ago but met someone and they were together for several months. They recently broke up and he returned two weeks ago. He then said something and my antennae went up.
“She’s a therapist and we’d be lying in bed and she’d tell me she didn’t know why she was with me. My politics bothered her.”
“What are your politics?”
“I’m a Libertarian. She didn’t understand lots of things like my feelings on the right to bear arms against a tyrannical government.”
OK, now we’re going to the scary place.
He’s one of those “no government whatsoever” kind of guys. I also know that a survey found that the Tea Party is about half Libertarians.
He asked me how I felt about political discussions. I told him I welcomed intelligent political discussions and began to share my history starting with my father. Before I could even finish (once I mentioned my dad was a public school teacher and started a political action committee) he began nodding his head and snickering.
“Knew it, I knew it.” He said, interrupting.
“What? What do you know and what’s so funny?”
“It’s a union thing, right? Your dad was the president of the teacher’s union. Who didn’t see that coming?” He was chortling at this point.
“No, he wasn’t and if you’d stop laughing and shaking your head long enough to listen, I’ll tell you about it.”
Unions (sigh), the enemy.
I was very cool, nobody around me would’ve known a thing was wrong, but the voice in my head was screaming,
CONDESCENDING PRICK, BRING. IT. ON.
Still snickering, he asked if my father knew Harry Reid. I told him he did. He asked what he thought of Harry Reid, and since he was pretending to suppress his laughter, I knew what his opinion was.
I wanted to slam his face into the table and not because I was trying to defend Harry Reid.
“Why are you asking? Because of what he’s just done with Mitt Romney and his taxes?”
“Harry Reid should release his taxes.”
“Harry Reid knows exactly what he’s doing. Mitt can either put up and prove Reid’s source is a liar or keep hiding his taxes and he’s a liar.”
“Yeah, well, Obama should release his college transcripts.”
OK, THAT WAS IT.
The new battle cry of Birthers now that the birth certificate conspiracy has been resolved. Trump is the mouthpiece on this one, too.
I couldn’t take another second with that lunatic.
“That’s it, I’m leaving.” I scooped up my handbag and bolted to the door. It all happened so quickly I think he was in shock. Once outside I hailed a cab—didn’t want to give him a chance to catch me—and made it back to my apartment.
I sent my oldest daughter a text:
I was just on a date with a fucking Tea Party member!
She replied:
NO!
Then Karl sent me a text:
Well, that was fun.
No, Karl, it wasn’t.
I didn’t reply.
“I’m non-violent, but when she says things like that I want to fight her.” My oldest daughter after she watched Sarah Palin’s “hopey changey” speech.
“Sadly, my wife is a Democrat, but she’s a common sense Democrat.” Neal
“My husband is a Republican, but he’s a Republican with a conscience.” Melani
Since politics were obviously important to him, he should have given a clue in his profile. But then I guess he would never get a date! Karl is a tool. Glad you did not bother staying in the same room with him another second.
Dovie, I’m not sure what his agenda was but I don’t think he should seek the company of a liberal Democrat with the things he believes.
I’m with you on this. There was no point spending another minute with this jerk…….waste of time. Today’s climate does not allow for debate. People don’t want a discussion, they want to lecture. My experience has taught me that there is no where to go in a relationship (platonic or otherwise) if there are diametrically opposed Political viewpoints. We had a dinner guest who made an inflammatory political statement within five minutes of his arrival. We all agreed to change the subject and move on. At the end of dinner he reacted to an innocent joke about his family by abruptly standing up from the table and leaving in a huff saying nothing. In the end, it was all about his behavior when he first came in. He should have left then. I’m sorry I fed him good food and wine. One hopes to find a partner with like minded spiritual and ethical belief systems – political beliefs are comingled with those. You were fortunate in your first two marraiges that you were able to navigate your differences. Doesn’t seem likely in today’s political environment.
Marilyn, your dinner guest came in looking for a fight. Surely he knows your political leanings and yet he chose to disrespect you, his host, in your own home. The ultimate in poor manners. Once you shut him down and he couldn’t spew his venom, he stewed. When you made an innocuous joke about his family he pounced. I just don’t understand why he came to begin with? Did he think he’d change your mind? Perhaps he was watching Fox News and was fired up? Who knows but I hope he’s not invited back–EVER! Thanks for your comment.
Growing up, I was uninterested in politics, even though I come from a college town that was a hot-bed of the SDS movement and the Weather Underground. In 1969 I was 16, so that gives you an idea about Vietnam and all that. It wasn’t until the impeachment hearings for Clinton that i became outraged at the hypocrisy and duplicity emanating from the right. And it grew from there. In 2000, for the first time in our history, the supreme court selected one of the worst presidents this nation has produced and this selection was made all the more vile because Gore had won the popular vote.
With all that being said, politically, I am hypersensitive. The right today is a mixture of anarchists and Christian Dominionists. (Need look no further than the insanity the spews forth from Bachman and $arah Palin.) This is a group of people who see the world around them shrinking because of globalization and their culture changing as whites become a minority. They are fighting a twilight battle with reality and much like Rumplestiltskin, are going to stamp their feet all the way to their demise. Cheerleaded by Fox “News” they see Obama as a symbol of everything they don’t understand and are afraid of. The birther’s are a particular form of mass delusional psychosis for no matter how much evidence to the contrary, they are convinced that the president is some how foreign. They deny science, they think Unions, teachers, firefighters and police are the enemy. They think that someone somewhere is taking something from them and since they don’t believe in government, they have no interest in governing.
Some sites, such as C4P have an idol (Palin) whom they worship with a religious fevor that is reminicent of Jim Jones.
My prediction, which is backed up by Nate Silver, is that Obama will win again. Romney is the manifestation of everything that is wrong with what masquerades as “conservative”. I’ll finish my rant with a little story.
Recently I was divorced. It was the longest relationship of my life. My (ex) wife has a Phd in Psychology but she is a Sean Hannity Rush Limbaugh type. Because of many things, but particularly our politics and how incensed I was about Cheney and all of the Iraq war BS we lived in separate homes for 6 yrs of our 15 yr relationship. (Surprisingly it worked!!) Anyway, I’ll give you an idea about how midwestern conservatives think. One night in 2004 I was having a conversation with her mother about how the Iraq war was based on lies. I asked her if she knew anything about the student movement of the ’60′s. (The answer I was looking for was how the government lied to the people then i.e. the Gulf of Tonkin incident and how using “terrorism” was even a worse lie now.) Her response was “dope smoking hippies”. I hadn’t heard that term in 35 yrs but it incapsulates how these “conservatives” think.
It’s best to avoid them.
Mitch, I was enraged during the Clinton impeachment hearings, too. Even more so with the Supreme Court decision on Bush v. Gore. Watching Recount only added to my outrage–sometimes it’s best to let go of things when they are over and nothing can be done to change them. I always try to remember the circumstances and fight so they don’t happen again but holding on to anger serves no purpose and will eat away at me. I do think Obama will be reelected and I think it will be a substantial victory. If it happens, let’s see what he does in this second term–when reelection worries aren’t looming. Might be even more historical than his first term. I look forward to watching. Thanks for your comment.
This is so timely. I have a meet and greet set up with an online guy who self labeled himself as “conservative” and I jokingly told him that if Rush, Sarah and Glenn (Beck) are his heroes, we probably won’t enjoy the time together. He said he listens to Rush now and again (ack!) but that he is interested in me as a person and not my political stands. I’ll try it out but did tell him if I hear any quotes from Rush, I’m going to start spouting Rachel Maddow and Chris Matthews at him. Good to be joking about it at least and so we’ll see how this goes!
Rosie, Neal listened to Rush and considered it entertainment–like a comedian. We would listen to him together on road trips. We laughed a lot at his nonsense. He’s not quite so funny these days. Keep me posted.
by the way…your Dad sure looked like Elvis at one point!
Rosie, he used to tell me stories about being chased through the casinos when Elvis was performing in Las Vegas. I thought he might be fibbing, but I do agree, he looked a lot like him. Hmmm, maybe he was telling the truth. Ha!
What I find in so many “conservatives” these days is THAT THEY KNOW NOTHING……..other than what they hear on FOX. When you really start to discuss issues with them, they can’t support their beliefs and only spout the lines they hear from others. Such lemmings!!! I really don’t think you find as much of that mentality among Liberals, but maybe I am biased. Frightening times, nevertheless.
On another note………..Melani, your dad was/is such a handsome guy, and what a solid character he must be. That is where you got your “substance” from, no doubt. (and looks, too?…..tell us about your mother)
Thanks, Jo. I have tried watching Fox News just to see what the other side is thinking and also to hear something that seems like a legitimate reason for being so opposed to President Obama and his policies. I end up wanting to put my hand through the screen and choke the person on the other side. It’s just craziness on that network and has zero factual basis. My dad will love your comment and yes, all the substance and character that I have was because of the things he taught me. He was the one who showed me how to be a parent and I am very lucky that he was the main caregiver in my life.
This topic is something that I feel very well informed about. So much so that if I am out with my friends they start to hum the theme music from A Secret Storm because I’m climbing up on a soap box.
Although I do think that it is possible to have a deep, meaningful and emotionally committed relationship with someone who has a different political perspective, a requirement for success is any ability to be open minded, receptive and to possess good listening skills. That and an easy recall of reality based facts and a prediliction to debate dispassionately and effectively.
I have watched….for hrs on end and for yrs on end MSNBC. I am a huge fan of Mathews, Maddow, Olberman (sob that his ego got in the way) Rev. Sharpton, Shultz, etc etc etc. I have my own “stack of stuff” that would rival the supreme gasbag Limbaugh and I have a visceral reaction to right wing lies and extremism. In the past yr there have been 2 university studies (education:something that the right disparages because education produces critical thinking and being well informed) that have shown that not only are Faux news viewers less informed than those who don’t watch any news, they are also more misinformed. I suggest that some of you research the history of Roger Ailes and Richard Nixon, for this confluence is the well spring of what tries to pass itself off as “being conservative” today. These people cultivated the (natural or not) paranoia that humans have evolved with to protect themselves against the unknown. They exploit fear and have marketed it now in the form of voter suppression, the denial of the rights of women and minorities including the LGBT community, unions and public service workers and have continued to perpetuate the easily disprovable myth of the geographic location of the Presidents birth. There is a saying that I came across during the Bush yrs. “When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross”. This is who they are. In my most deep and dark wishes, I hope that they are effected directly by man made climate change and watch them repent! That denial of science alone reminds me of the scene in the 1st Superman movie; when the elders; warned about the impending explosion of the planet said “Fehhhh”. And like Frank Zappa’s song lyrics chimed in “it can’t happen here”.
Well, IT IS happening here and this mind set needs to be evolved out of.
I apologize for my long winded, disassociated stream of consciousness rant but this stuff gets me all worked up.
Next I’ll take a shower and smoke a joint.
If you like to argue, go to blogsforvictory. If you think that $arah Palin faked the birth of Tri-g (medical shorthand for Downs Syndrom) go to Politicalgates or her worshipers website (where they STILL think she will magically become President and is the most articulate human ever) C4P. If you want to be informed, go to Andrew Sullivans site, or Malia Litmann, or David Frumm or John Dean’s (yes, Nixon’s John Dean) Conservatives Without Conscious. A collaboration between him and Barry Goldwater. (Today Goldwater would be considered to liberal for even liberal Teabaggers.)
As Ricky Riccardo used to say…ie ie ie.
Jeez, Mitch, pass the doobie. I agree with everything you wrote–and that’s a lot to agree with! Love David Frum–I’ve even written to him after hearing a particularly rational take on the current Republican party and how it’s morphed into something that is impossible to stomach. He responded right away. Love that. I’m a big fan of Chris Matthews and love to watch him in action when dealing with crazy. His Michelle Bachmann interview with the “anti-America” statement is one of my favorites–hence the link in this post. There is no question that Neal and I had vast differences in the way we believed this country should be governed. We had many heated debates. The difference is we were always willing to listen to FACTS. Something that’s been lost in this new wave of political bottom-dwellers who pretend to care about the United States. After Neal died I went into his email account and looked at the messages he had sent (we shared our passwords so I wasn’t violating his privacy). One that I remember clearly was to a friend of his–another Republican. He said it was impossible to support Bush any longer. The level of stupidity was something he could no longer ignore. I often wondered (during the McCain/Obama race) what he would’ve done. I think he probably would’ve voted for McCain until he chose Palin as his VP. I am certain he couldn’t vote for him after that. Not sure if he would’ve voted for Obama but I am certain he would like him. The level of brainpower alone would’ve impressed Neal–not to mention the things he accomplished in his life without being born into the “Lucky Sperm Club”. Thanks for your rant.
Whenever I send an email to an online prospect, I try to say something unique. If I see a prospect that has oppostite political views, I think your line of “I will cancel you out” on Election Day is genius.
If it works to get me a date, I will let you know. Damn, thats a good one.
Yes, John, Let me know. Glad you like it. It always made me laugh.
Wow, what a timely blog. I sit here in a central California ag/oil town feeling like a total outcast. I don’t even go out anymore because every conversation around here is about how evil Obama is. Things are getting so bad that I fear ever expressing my opinions. I am the only one in my circle of family and friends that went to college, so that is what they use to explain my “radical” views. Facebook has become unbearable with “like if your are a patriot” posts. The sad part is that if I found someone here to date that shared my views, my own family would probable be rude to them too!
Jenny, sorry to hear you’re living that nightmare. I do love that about NYC–so many like minded. In Las Vegas I found myself in many situations like you described. I had a hard time biting my tongue and didn’t lots of times. Your Facebook dilemma is one I’ve experienced, as well. I recently posted this on my personal FB page:
“To all my FB friends. As the political climate heats up I’ve noticed the posts are beginning to reflect the same. I welcome debate but if you’re going to post racist or simply crazy stuff (Birther or Obama is a Muslim) do me a favor and “defriend” me now. Some of my favorite people are staunch Republicans but they would never go down that road.”
I also cleaned up FB and eliminated those whom I knew wouldn’t be respectful of differing political opinions (I now have 147 friends:) ) It was very freeing. Thanks for your comment.
I have always wondered why people say you should avoid talking about politics during a first (or early) date. Why wait until later to find out that you are incompatible? Some of my dating don’ts are republicans and Boston celtic fans. The sooner I know the better. Good thing you got out when you did…LOL
Having a belief/opinion about anything is taking a position, and just about any position is then polarizing because it excludes anything that’s not it. As Hegel wrote, “the truth is the whole”. At any rate, i appreciate what one of my friends said once, which was, “Everybody gets to believe anything they want (which is certainly true) — it doesn’t make it right, and it doesn’t make it yours”. I just love this. Just because someone has an opinion (and we all do), that doesn’t mean their/our opinion is right, and, you don’t have to agree with it. In this way, it seems we can have tolerance for differing opinions, and take away the need to argue and make someone right and someone wrong. All that said, when it comes to intimate relationships, it seems the more things you agree on the easier it is to love on each other. I agree the guy was being an ass (no matter his beliefs), and that you were wise to leave just because of that.
A very thoughtful post, Will. I’m always a fan of facts, but how those are interpreted seems to always come down to belief/opinion. Damn it!
Oh Melani,
Imagine how hard it is to date in DC. Politics is always the topic and quickly sorts the chaff from the pyrite. I have learned that ‘other’ on a profile whether it be for religion or politics is a red flag.
Last night I was on my way to date (whooohoooo) and hit a curb and shredded my front tire. I was fine and called roadside assistance and get this I called the gentleman and he first inquired about my safety and then offered to still meet me once I got repaired. We had a lovely dinner and it was then it hit me how crappy my Hex-husband was. At no time did this gentleman mention that I was a lousy driver, stupid or an idiot. Even offered to help me shop for new tires. Damn shame that he has four kids under the age of 18 and was only separated. Yup that was his ‘other’ on his status. Back to the trenches…………..Cindy
Cindy, you are SO right about “other”. Sorry to hear your former husband would speak to you like that. He sounds cruel and you certainly deserve someone just like the guy you dated. The kids thing probably wouldn’t work for me and separated is always an issue, but maybe he’s worth a try?
I haven’t ruled him out completely. He has some pluses-a job, a pulse and a sense of humor. And he texted to see if I got home safely. Oh and paid for dinner……. a strong maybe!! Keep the faith….
I know I’m late to the party, BUT — I lost a friend of 30 years over politics. And it wasn’t even an election year! This guy was a jokester and one night last year, he called (just a normal catch-up call, I thought) and started ragging on Obama. He knows my views and I thought we were just going to do the sarcastic jabs at each other, but he wouldn’t stop. And was giving me all the standard Repub talking points, like the price of gas. When I disputed it, he went home and sent me one of the factually incorrect e-mails that they all forward to each other. I still was kind of hoping we were fake-arguing, but finally I got pissed and told him the conversation was over. That was the end of the friendship. WTF!!?? Why would he even go there? Was it worth it to him to lose a good friend, in a friggin’ off year, even?
Your father reminds me of my mother. Even at age 89, she was firing off Letters to the Editor about politics. Sadly, she fell earlier this year (during primary season) and sustained a massive brain injury. My cousin tried to bring her out of her six-day coma by whispering in her ear, “Newt LOST!”. Didn’t work, but she would have appreciated the try.
What a story, Nancy. What the hell is wrong with people? Sick to death of how things are pushed and pushed like that. So disrespectful and borderline bullying. I think Dems are getting tired of being so PC. I know I am and will come back at an idiot with as much as they dish out. The story about your mom is sweet. So sorry to hear of her brain injury and your cousin’s attempt to bring her back. Newt–now there’s a real role model, right?
I really wish I was reading and commenting on these posts at the time… US politics have been a real study of the absurd since Obama got in – the hard-line right are going to go down in history as another black political period like McCarthyism. Do you (or your father) believer Clinton will run in 2016 and her leaving now is to lead into a long campaign or actual retirement? I really like Obama and he’s the only US President I’ve found inspiring and respectable in my lifetime (there are some things I disagree with but his oratory does get me a bit horny).
Unfortunately, Australia isn’t a long way behind. We have our first ever female prime minister – and she is generally loathed because she almost-not-quite lied once, criticism of her is often sexist and misogynistic. I don’t agree with all her policies, she is politically middle of the road and compromises – but I believe that’s what government should do, I have a huge amount of respect for her intelligence and cunning, she is an excellent politician. The opposition (conservative party ironically called the “Liberal” party) has constantly used every nasty measure of attack, and are constantly refusing to ever agree with the government regardless of the merits of policy. Their leader, currently pegged for a big and clear election win in Sep-2013, is abominable – vicious, no conscious and stupid (and has lied 29043520954 more than the PM but he’s a rich conservative man playing classic politics and is never called on it). Luckily we have an emerging third party and some independents who help keep it in check so laws can still get passed.
I haven’t talked to my dad about Hillary running in 2016, Jarod, but he’s visiting in a few weeks and I know our discussions will include politics. I’ll see what he has to say. I do believe that she will run. I can’t imagine she’d give up something as historical as being the first woman president. Time will tell. I am ashamed to say I know very little about Australian politics but you’ve got me curious and I’m going to study up so I can better understand your opinion. Thank you for your comment and especially the part about Obama’s mad oratory skills getting you a bit horny. That made me laugh out loud.